Edit Comments > Quick Buttons ordering should be changed, with "Spam" becoming less accessible

[lloydbudd]

Edit Comments > Quick Buttons ordering should be changed, with "Spam" becoming less accessible

ENV: 2.9-beta-1 (TRUNK r12273)

When hovering over a comment on Edit Comments, the buttons currently are:

Approve | Spam | Trash | Edit | Quick Edit | Reply

This should be changed to something like

Approve Comment | Reply | Quick Edit | Move to Trash | Mark as Spam | Edit

ADDITIONAL DETAILS

I'm not particularly comfortable with either "Trash" or "Spam" being used as verbs.

Move to Trash should definitely be before Mark as Spam -- be conservative.

The ordering is a bit ideal / Utopian , but being a little hopeful is a good thing, and should serve us well even better in the future.

Longer strings also makes each "button" more clickable. Using "respond" instead of "reply" didn't feel quite right.

[janeforshort]

I've suggested a compromise:
Approve | Reply | Quick Edit | Edit | Trash | Spam

Changing one-word labels to phrases would have needed to be looked at sooner than now (we're already in beta, so this sort of ticket really should have been added a month ago or put into future release), since translation issues could arise, but the ordering change to move spam to the end is okay with me. I think Edit should be grouped with the quick edit, though, to retain context of the difference (though makes sense for quick edit to come first since it's a lower-commitment action).

[azaozz]

Perhaps we should switch the order together with adding "Move to" and "Mark as" in 3.0.

[nacin]

Replying to azaozz:

Perhaps we should switch the order together with adding "Move to" and "Mark as" in 3.0.

Right now, the order doesn't make much sense from the UX perspective. They aren't grouped logically and were only made worse with Spam/Trash.

I'm for 2.9 w/ rearranging them as Jane proposes -- it breaks no translations and organizes them logically. Then in 3.0 "move to" and "mark as" can be (debated and) addressed.

[nacin]

First pass on this. Patch rearranges it per Jane's compromise suggestion.

Two things:

1) I've added   to Delete Permanently (twice), which is what was also done with Quick Edit ("Quick Edit") and does make sense.

2) Per the latest patch in #11260, which calls for a spam undo option, this patch would need to be refreshed.

Also, assuming this goes into 2.9, I'm thinking we set this to fixed and do not further address "Mark as" and "Move to." Both Trash and Spam have appropriate descriptive tooltips ("Move this comment to the trash" and "Mark this comment as spam") anyway. And there's really no point adding four more words to a quick action menu -- KISS.

[azaozz]

(In [12287]) Reorder comment actions, fixes #11258

[caesarsgrunt]

I don't like the new order; I think moderation links should be all together at the beginning, followed by editing links. Possibly the two groups should be slightly separated.

Also, I don't like putting Spam right at either end because I think the end links are the most "clickable", and Spam shouldn't be.

So I think the ideal order is either

Approve | Spam | Trash | Reply | Edit | Quick Edit

OR

Quick Edit | Edit | Reply   -   Approve | Spam | Trash

[caesarsgrunt]

BTW, why not merge Edit and Quick Edit - always Quick Edit if there is JS, and link to Edit otherwise? We could add a link to the full edit page within Quick Edit - call it "advanced" or something.

[caesarsgrunt]

Also... I think Spam should be red, like Trash.

[lloydbudd]

Replying to janeforshort:

I've suggested a compromise:
Approve | Reply | Quick Edit | Edit | Trash | Spam

Fair compromise.

ENV: 2.9-beta-1 (trunk r12287)

Verified fix.

[Denis-de-Bernardy]

I second that the new order makes no more sense than the old one. Both are inconsistent with the rest of the UI.

[caesarsgrunt]

Replying to lloydbudd:

Fair compromise.

I don't think it is; which is why I reopened the ticket to continue discussion. I won't bother reopening it again if you want to keep it closed, but I do think usability is severely detrimentally affected by the change, which puts the links in a semi-random order. (Yes, I know there is reasoning behind it, but it's not obvious).

Replying to Denis-de-Bernardy:

I second that the new order makes no more sense than the old one. Both are inconsistent with the rest of the UI.

I'd argue that it makes less sense; at least the old links were ordered according to the action they perform.
Out of interest, what else in the UI are you comparing it to when you say both are inconsistent? I know the quick actions in the dashboard comment list are in a different order (I had been going to open a ticket for that), but are there inconsistencies anywhere else?

[Denis-de-Bernardy]

Replying to Denis-de-Bernardy:

I second that the new order makes no more sense than the old one. Both are inconsistent with the rest of the UI.

I'd argue that it makes less sense; at least the old links were ordered according to the action they perform.
Out of interest, what else in the UI are you comparing it to when you say both are inconsistent? I know the quick actions in the dashboard comment list are in a different order (I had been going to open a ticket for that), but are there inconsistencies anywhere else?

Posts/Pages: Edit | Quick Edit | Trash | View

Terms: Edit | Quick Edit | Delete

Media: Edit | Trash | View

Links: Edit | Delete

Themes: Activate | Preview | Delete

Plugins: Activate | Delete

Users: Activate | Delete

But...

Comments: Approve | Reply | Quick Edit | Edit | Trash | Spam

For consistency's sake, my own suggestion, for the latter, would be:

Quick Edit | Edit | Trash | Spam | Approve | Reply

It keeps Edit to the left, like in the rest of the UI, and it takes you from the most likely to the least likely action right to left.

Re-opening...

[Denis-de-Bernardy]

This probably makes sense too:

Approve | Edit | Quick Edit | Trash | Spam | Reply

Approve is a bit like Activate for plugins. And Edit | Quick Edit is consistent with what happens on posts (though see #11273).

[Denis-de-Bernardy]

untested patch against r12287

[Denis-de-Bernardy]

untested patch for another order

[Denis-de-Bernardy]

third possibility

[Denis-de-Bernardy]

I've uploaded three patches. My own pref is the third, I think. I makes Quick Edit handy to the left. Reply to the far right. Then Approve, then Spam immediately before it going right from left. And finally Trash.

[Denis-de-Bernardy]

Expanding on the previous comment, I'm pretty certain that Approve, Spam, and probably reply should be near one another. It makes it simpler to go through multiple comments.

[Denis-de-Bernardy]

Btw, how is it that this got committed in the first place? It had a -1 vote almost immediately. (Which now stands at -2.)

The proper thing to do is to revert the change, stick to the legacy order in 2.9, and revisit this in 3.0.

[caesarsgrunt]

Replying to Denis-de-Bernardy:

Btw, how is it that this got committed in the first place? It had a -1 vote almost immediately. (Which now stands at -2.)

The proper thing to do is to revert the change, stick to the legacy order in 2.9, and revisit this in 3.0.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

I see what you mean about the inconsistencies, although there are slight inconsistencies amongst the other examples too. Also, I'd think there are some issues with the order of some of the other actions anyway.

Personally, my current opinion (though I am open to discussion) is that moderation actions want to be first, since that's the main thing you do. Then edit actions, then delete actions.
Reply doesn't fit any of those categories. It could come between any of these three sections so far as I'm concerned, but I'd be most comfortable with it on the far right, as a sort of misc actions area. View/Preview links in the rest of the site would also fit in misc, and are currently on the far right.
Spam could be argued to be either a moderation action or a deletion action, but I am firmly on the moderation side, and would put it at the end of the first section.
Note that by "sections" I am not talking about dividing the links up visually; just ordering them by these conceptual groupings.

So, based on the above, my order for comment actions would be :

Approve | Spam | Quick Edit | Edit | Trash | Reply

I think this is consistent with the rest of the UI, since the moderation actions don't exist for anything else and so there is no precedent for them, and the rest follow the order of other pages as well as being conceptually grouped.

An alternative order, moving Reply as mentioned above, would be

Approve | Spam | Reply | Quick Edit | Edit | Trash

I'd be very happy with either of these, but am open to discussion.

[lloydbudd]

Replying to Denis-de-Bernardy:

Btw, how is it that this got committed in the first place? It had a -1 vote almost immediately. (Which now stands at -2.)

Voting is an interesting experience, but I have never seen it be a valuable "gate" in a software project I've participated in -- it can be a very useful clue (but not at a couple of votes or a -2).

The proper thing to do is to revert the change, stick to the legacy order in 2.9, and revisit this in 3.0.

The legacy order makes little sense. I'd be (barely) OK with just switching trash and spam. I see this a bike shed issue (currently), and happy just to punt to 3.0 and move on.

I recently checked with Alex of Akismet and he thought that the current order (and lack of trash) contributes to false positives -- the spam button sure is inviting.

Approve and then sometimes reply are the expected operations. Maybe, you have to correct a typo or some grammar.

For most Spam & Trash should be the least frequently used buttons -- lets not continue to bandaid by making the buttons highly accessible.

[lloydbudd]

When going to sleep last night an additional reasoning came to light -- destructive operations should be last.

[dd32]

For what its worth, I agree with the compromise ordering.

• Not all pages have to follow the same action ordering, Different pages require different actions in the first place.
  • Comments: You rarely edit them
  • Posts/Terms: You are either going to edit it, or delete it; Not many choices.
• Most commonly used functions are at the Left, Moving to the right. This should probably be reversed in rtl languages
  • So, Common tasks for Posts left.. Common tasks for comments.. Left
    • Even if this means every action bar in the admin is not consistant (They dont have the same content for a start, or do the same things)
• Before the order was messed up to start with
• This order is better for the previous reasons

The label text can be revisited early in 3.0 as already said if required - Probably a followup issue for a 2nd ticket if anyone feels the need.

Btw, how is it that this got committed in the first place? It had a -1 vote almost immediately. (Which now stands at -2.)

The patch got commited because the issue was seen by all, And a compromise which suits most uses was found. There were no specific -1's at the time of commit, only ones happy with the compromise (And that was only related to the use of Spam/Trash as verbs)

[caesarsgrunt]

I still think that either

Approve | Spam | Quick Edit | Edit | Trash | Reply

or

Approve | Spam | Reply | Quick Edit | Edit | Trash

would be best, since as described above the interface is more intuitive if the actions are grouped conceptually.

However, that is an ideal which I can see that others disagree with...

My main objection to the new order, however, is the placement of Spam right at the end. Apart from the fact that it is separated from related actions, it is far more likely to be clicked on accidentally at the end, IMO, and the reason for this ticket in the first place was to cut down on people clicking on it.

[caesarsgrunt]

Additionally, if we want to order them by most common usage, I think the most common usage order is :

Approve | Reply | Quick Edit | Spam | Trash | Edit

But I don't like this at all, since it completely separates Quick Edit and Edit.

I still like the idea of merging Quick Edit and Edit into one link; I think having both is superfluous.

[caesarsgrunt]

A modified version of the "compromise", which I would be ok with, would be

Approve | Reply | Quick Edit | Edit | Spam | Trash

(just swapping Spam and Trash).

This fits both with the order-by-frequency idea (except for keeping the edits together) and a form of conceptual grouping (since as mentioned above, spam could be considered to be a delete action as well as a moderate action).

It also keeps spam near the end, so the logic of having it further to the right making it less "inviting" would be satisfied, but doesn't put it right at the end, so it isn't so visible or accidenatly clickable.

Overall I would say that this compromise more or less fits with all the arguments of everyone so far - what does anyone else think?

[Denis-de-Bernardy]

I'm sticking to my preferred 11258.3.diff, myself. I may have the wrong workflow, but... when I'm approving comments I got to admin / comments / pending.

And then, I click either of Approve, or Spam. Occasionally reply. The point here is I like it when Approve and Spam are next to one another. It means I don't need to move my mouse all over the place.

[caesarsgrunt]

I also like Approve and Spam near each other, as they are in my preferred order :

Approve | Spam | Reply | Quick Edit | Edit | Trash

They aren't like that in my proposed compromise, however, because (a) other people don't seem to like them together and (b) the point of this ticket was to move Spam to the end...
The compromise order is thus

Approve | Reply | Quick Edit | Edit | Spam | Trash

I don't like the reversed order in your patch, with Approve at the right-hand end. I think that would make it harder to use.

[lloydbudd]

Re-closing as fixed.

Great additional insights by all. The compromised solution is agreed upon by Jane and myself (and 3rd by DD32), ppl with a general focus on usability. Unless new data presents itself, let's go with the current ( [12287]) order, and look out for general usability concerns and revisit if necessary in a future version.

Replying to Denis-de-Bernardy:

The point here is I like it when Approve and Spam are next to one another. It means I don't need to move my mouse all over the place.

You are a sophisticated user Denis. As previously described, most people need to pause before marking spam -- though most also have very little spam to moderate.

Can the buttons (& order) currently be overwritten? We should make sure to have the infrastructure for that -- someone might want to filter and add their own quick button. Then Denis or Ceasar you can create a plugin for your Approve | Spam ordering ;-)

[nacin]

Replying to lloydbudd:

Can the buttons (& order) currently be overwritten? We should make sure to have the infrastructure for that -- someone might want to filter and add their own quick button.

$actions = apply_filters( 'comment_row_actions', array_filter($actions), $comment );

[janeforshort]

My general reasoning re order is 1) positive actions to move from moderation to published status (which includes reply per Lloyd;s comment above), 2) fiddling with content (editing), 3) destructive actions.

I don't think it's useful to keep going back and forth about what each person thinks is most "usable," since frankly, every single person's opinion on this is just that, their opinion (including me). The only reason to change away from the already accepted update that fits the reasoning above would be usability testing that looked at this specific issue. I would be happy to put that on the testing agenda, but it's not going ot happen before 2.9.

[caesarsgrunt]

Replying to janeforshort:

My general reasoning re order is 1) positive actions to move from moderation to published status (which includes reply per Lloyd;s comment above), 2) fiddling with content (editing), 3) destructive actions.

I'm happy with that, except that I think Spam and Trash should be reversed. That would still have destructive actions at the end. I do think there seems to be a general consensus that the first and last items are the most "clickable", and I don't think Spam should be.

But never mind, I can see we're not going to get anywhere by keeping on discussing it... Im reluctant to say this, but lets just leave it for now and see what the wider public reaction is to the change.

[lloydbudd]

Related [not current milestone (ms 2.9, linked tic is ms 3.0)]
Ticket #11273 Comments: Edit button is not necessary with Quick Edit button

Replying to caesarsgrunt:

I'm happy with that, except that I think Spam and Trash should be reversed.

Oh man, you are correct. I'd argue as well should be 'Spam | Trash' to decrease the unconsidered marking as spam -- false positive. Although, marking as spam is the most destructive operation, cognitive models suggest that the end item gets a higher frequency of use.

Approve | Reply | Quick Edit | Edit | Spam | Trash

[azaozz]

(In [12311]) Swap Spam and Trash in comment action links, fixes #11258

[caesarsgrunt]

Sorry to open this again, but I've just noticed a problem...

On the Spam page, 'Not Spam' comes near the end as if it were destructive. It should (IMO) be moved to the beginning.

[caesarsgrunt]

Move 'Not Spam' to the beginning

[lloydbudd]

Replying to caesarsgrunt:

On the Spam page, 'Not Spam' comes near the end as if it were destructive. It should (IMO) be moved to the beginning.

People are most confortable with On/Off being in the same position. caesarsgrunt, how about opening a new 3.0 including some screencasts of the current behavior vs proposed based on your testing.