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Opened 10 years ago

Closed 10 years ago

#14444 closed feature request (duplicate)

Send email to admin when update available

Reported by: jane Owned by:
Milestone: Priority: normal
Severity: normal Version: 3.0
Component: Security Keywords: close
Focuses: Cc:

Description

Since many admins don't log in on a regular basis, we should email them when core updates are available to increase adoption/security.

Change History (23)

#1 @Denis-de-Bernardy
10 years ago

Among these admins, some have dozens, and occasionally hundreds or thousands of sites. Are we sure we want to risk that emails with Wordpress in them get caught by ISPs as spam?

I'm sure sploggers, for instance, do not upgrade. They generally have a few thousand sites. Having them receive as many emails on every WP update will not help, and I'd guess they run the majority of the very old sites that appear in the WP stats.

#2 @MattyRob
10 years ago

If you have to add this to core then *please* add an option to turn it off.

I'm personally not keen on this. WordPress users will update if they log in and won't if they have stopped using their site. Emailing both about updates will results in one of 2 responses in the main, either "I know there's an update, I'm on it" or "I don't care, leave me alone".

Perhaps a good example where aiming to be helpful will just annoy most users - much like Windows reminder dialogues!!

#3 @duck_
10 years ago

Related/dupe: #10787

Would have to be (imo) optional, so maybe still best as (core-)plugin.

#4 @MattyRob
10 years ago

  • Resolution set to wontfix
  • Status changed from new to closed

See http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/10787

It seems this has been discussed by the core team and squashed.

It's also available as a plugin to those who want it:
http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/update-notifier/

Closing as WONTFIX like dupe ticket above

#5 @scribu
10 years ago

  • Milestone 3.1 deleted

#6 @nacin
10 years ago

  • Milestone set to 3.1
  • Resolution wontfix deleted
  • Status changed from closed to reopened

Re-opening. You're absolutely right, this was discussed and decided about a year ago. But there has been additional discussion since then, and it is Jane's prerogative as a member of the core team to re-open that discussion.

#7 @scribu
10 years ago

Then shouldn't this be marked as duplicate and the original ticket re-opened?

#8 follow-up: @Denis-de-Bernardy
10 years ago

I'm in agreement with Matty's comment.

The "I'm too scared" crowd is the most problematic group. There are many such users. They know there's an upgrade. They care very much. But they're too scared to upgrade because things blew up in their face at some point.

Second most problematic is the "I don't care" crowd. Maybe they no longer use their blog. Maybe they know a plugin or theme won't work after upgrading. Or maybe they just don't care and wish WP would stop nagging them so they can reclaim their screen real estate. In fact, I'd suggest that last subgroup is the majority. Upgrading, for hem, is too much of a chore, and possibly way over their head.

The "I'm on it" crowd, based on WP usage stats, would be the majority.

Last, but not least, it's like... Let's face it. WP should not be doing this. At all. How creepy would it be if your cellphone was filling your inbox when updates were available?

#9 @mrmist
10 years ago

Agree with D-de-B really.

However, if the way that admin email functionality was handled were improved so that e.g. administrators (multiple) could "sign up" to effectively site announcements (e.g covering this and improvements to moderation emails) then that might be workable, and worth doing.

#10 @filosofo
10 years ago

I think Denis has the correct analysis. If the administrator is the kind of person who has set up and then abandoned a blog, it's unlikely that an email is going to prompt him to take the time to figure out what will or will not break, etc., in order to do the upgrade. "No problems so far...best to leave it alone and I'll get around to it later."

I am also concerned about being deluged with emails from some of the many sites I've set up over the years.

#11 follow-up: @MattyRob
10 years ago

Debate? Are you serious?

The ticket has had virtually no traffic since it opened 2 months ago and all that has been posted by _users_ of WordPress has been against the implementation of this feature.

So, where is the other side of the debate?

To recap: this feature is a bad idea. Bulk emailing admins who don't care will not increase security, it will annoy people and they will become even less engaged. It will also annoy people who regularly update.

In fact, you know it may reduce upgrades, because if this goes into core without the option to switch if off I won't upgrade from the current stable release.

So, bring on the debate, where are the people championing the positives of this proposal?

#12 in reply to: ↑ 11 @Denis-de-Bernardy
10 years ago

  • Keywords close added

Replying to MattyRob:

In fact, you know it may reduce upgrades, because if this goes into core without the option to switch if off I won't upgrade from the current stable release.

Heh, you actually upgrade each time? ;-) I never do so, except on point releases... If even then... And I consider myself more savvy than most with WP.

It's just, you know... the QA. Which, as we all know here, kind of sucks... Upgrading the likes of Zend is one thing (80% unit test coverage?); upgrading WP is another. No amount of emailing me will make me change my mind on not wanting to break the sites I manage.

What would, would be for WP, and every single theme and plugin in the repo, to contain a tests folder, that I can use phpunit with...

Suggesting wontfix on this ticket, personally. The positive points, whichever I can think of, seem nonsensical.

#13 @demetris
10 years ago

The problem with this ticket is that it reopens a discussion without bringing anything new to it.

This topic was discussed extensively during the 2.9 dev cycle. People agreed then that sending emails to site admins (with or without an option exposed in the UI) was not a good idea.

Most people agreed that the best solution to the problem would be an announcement mailing list for anyone to subscribe, like this one here: http://wordpress.org/download/

To raise awareness about the announcement mailing list, it was agreed it would be useful to include a link to it in a reworked Hello World post. The default post was reworked, committed, but didn’t make it into the final release.

And here we are, two dev cycles later, rehashig the old topic.

If no one reopens this discussion again during the 3.3 dev cycle, I’ll make sure to file a ticket myself. :-D

#14 follow-up: @MattyRob
10 years ago

@Demetris,

Not only are we rehashing an old topic, we are having a one sided debate about how bad this idea is (again) but closing the ticket it a big no-no unless you are a core developer who's been nowhere near the ticket since it opened.

D-de-B hits the nail on the head - WordPress is driven by the thoughts of the core devs without any great deal of attention being paid to regular users and plugin authors. I doubt this will ever change so rather than ticket checking I'll be looking for a WordPress alternative for the next few weeks instead!

#15 @nacin
10 years ago

  • Milestone changed from 3.1 to Awaiting Review

Wow, really? Leaving a ticket open does not mean anything is blessed. It's rather clearly labeled a feature request, and I'll even remove it from the 3.1 milestone.

Since this ticket was opened, there have been some discussions in both IRC and at WordCamps on possible big picture implementations and alternatives. The OP deserves some respect here.

I'm not saying I'm sold on the idea myself; rather, five people voting something down does not necessarily lead to a consensus nor is it grounds for a decision.

You should also review our core philosophies. Posting here pretty much means that none of you are "regular users" -- we need to think about twenty million users, not just follow the vocal minority.

#16 in reply to: ↑ 8 ; follow-up: @nacin
10 years ago

Replying to Denis-de-Bernardy:

How creepy would it be if your cellphone was filling your inbox when updates were available?

My cellphone does that. Pretty sure I didn't even ask it to, but I appreciate that it does. (Even better, it downloads the update and does it myself, even at the risk of breaking something. I digress.) My blog also emails me whenever a user is registered and someone posts a comment. Granted, there are associated UI options for it. I think you get the idea. Again, not advocating the idea here, just suggesting that "creepiness" is not a candidate for closure.

#17 @mrmist
10 years ago

Related (to what I was saying earlier) #14676 (and the tickets that relates to).

#18 in reply to: ↑ 14 @Denis-de-Bernardy
10 years ago

Replying to MattyRob:

After 5 years of doing as much on a regular basis, and as morbidly ugly and full of warts as she is, I'm sorry to report that WP is the least ugly bride.

#19 in reply to: ↑ 16 ; follow-up: @Denis-de-Bernardy
10 years ago

  • Resolution set to wontfix
  • Status changed from reopened to closed

Replying to nacin:

Replying to Denis-de-Bernardy:

How creepy would it be if your cellphone was filling your inbox when updates were available?

My cellphone does that.

Not so. Your cellphone displays a notice which, depending on the model, usually ends up displayed to you as an SMS, along with a link so you can upgrade automatically. In this respect, it only differs from WP in that a) you can dismiss the notice by deleting the message and b) it works when you upgrade the firmware.

It's definitely not stuffing your gmail account with "Upgrade Me!" nags. And neither are your car, your tv, your DVD player, and all those little things in or out of your house whose software could be upgraded if you had enough time to waste. That would be very creepy.

The dozens of WP installs I maintain should not be sending me emails either. Those who want one can use a plugin. And I certainly don't want to turn the feature off on each and every one of them.

I'm re-closing this ticket, considerIng that every contributor expressed a negative opinion on the idea. The only reason this could possibly stay open is if a core dev decided to shove it down our throat -- much like the P dangit feature.

#20 in reply to: ↑ 19 ; follow-up: @nacin
10 years ago

  • Resolution wontfix deleted
  • Status changed from closed to reopened

Replying to Denis-de-Bernardy:

In this respect, it only differs from WP in that [...] it works when you upgrade the firmware.

You just bring happiness and optimism to every thread.

I'm re-closing this ticket, considerIng that every contributor expressed a negative opinion on the idea.

I suggest you read the section on the philosophies page titled "The Vocal Minority."

The only reason this could possibly stay open is if a core dev decided to shove it down our throat -- much like the P dangit feature.

No one is doing anything of the sort. You're welcome to re-read my comment above.

#21 in reply to: ↑ 20 @Denis-de-Bernardy
10 years ago

Replying to nacin:

Replying to Denis-de-Bernardy:

In this respect, it only differs from WP in that [...] it works when you upgrade the firmware.

You just bring happiness and optimism to every thread.

I would, along with patches, if I didn't get the impression I'd be wasting my time doing so. In the meanwhile, I'll stick to adding a note when I stumble into things which I feel will lead to silly implementations or bugs.

"The Vocal Minority"

Henry Ford once quipped: Had I asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have answered stronger horses.

No one is doing anything of the sort.

Sorry, but I'm already getting the opposite impression.

#22 @MattyRob
10 years ago

@nacin,

Thanks for at least punting this to a future release. I'm further interested in your comments about 'regular users'. It would seem that you are saying that because I make comment on trac about bugs and feature requests other than somewhere else my opinion is not valid? I use WordPress pretty much every single day - so what is a 'regular user'?

I guess the ultimate question is how do I get into that 'inner circle' - you see whenever I've logged into IRC it's been empty and I can't travel to WordCamps.

The 'philosophy' talks about being designed for the majority, but in the same breathe you suggested that those who take the time and trouble to comment on WordPress's development here are just a vocal minority (who should be ignored). So, come on - how exactly do we get involved in a more adult conversation or debate rather than what is going on here right now?

#23 @scribu
10 years ago

  • Milestone Awaiting Review deleted
  • Resolution set to duplicate
  • Status changed from reopened to closed
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