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Opened 2 months ago

Closed 2 months ago

Last modified 7 weeks ago

#43555 closed enhancement (fixed)

Keep Hello Dolly from displaying sexist text in the admin

Reported by: joemcgill Owned by: joemcgill
Milestone: 4.9.5 Priority: normal
Severity: normal Version:
Component: Plugins Keywords: has-patch commit fixed-major
Focuses: Cc:

Description

The Hello Dolly plugin has been bundled in WordPress for many years, being a simple example of how to build a plugin for WordPress while also adding a bit of whimsy to admin. However, there are several passages of text from this song which are inappropriate to display without any context to people using WordPress—particularly as the WordPress project seeks to promote inclusivity for all.

For example, the following lines of text should never be shown in the admin unexpectedly:

Find her an empty lap, fellas Find her a vacant knee, fellas

While much discussion has been had over whether 'Hello Dolly' should, in fact, still be bundled in WordPress by default (see #11538, #15769), I'm proposing that we simply ensure that these lines in particular are not shown.

Attachments (7)

Remove_2_offensives_lines_in_hello_Dolly.patch (778 bytes) - added by sebastien@… 2 months ago.
remove 2 lines in Hello Dolly
43555_change_the_last_4_lines.patch (753 bytes) - added by sebastien@… 2 months ago.
43555.diff (1.9 KB) - added by joemcgill 2 months ago.
43555-2 (1.6 KB) - added by sebastien@… 2 months ago.
43555.3.diff (1.5 KB) - added by audrasjb 2 months ago.
Refreshes last patch in order to prepare core integration
43555.4.diff (1.5 KB) - added by audrasjb 2 months ago.
Refreshes the previous patch to delete another not wanted line in lyrics
43555.2.diff (1.8 KB) - added by joemcgill 2 months ago.

Download all attachments as: .zip

Change History (44)

#1 @jeremyfelt
2 months ago

several passages of text from this song which are inappropriate to display without any context to people using WordPress—particularly as the WordPress project seeks to promote inclusivity for all.

+1

#2 @bamadesigner
2 months ago

hear! hear!

As a fan of musical theatre, and one who grew up singing "Put On Your Sunday Clothes" non-stop, it pains me to point out that this movie, as a whole, is horribly sexist.

I know there's been a lot of debate about the plugin from a coding/learning standpoint, because people want something in core that shows how to build a plugin. If you must have an example plugin in core, can we replace with something that doesn't degrade women as "dainty" and "fragile"?

#3 @gilzow
2 months ago

+1 for at least removing the offensive passages.

Is there any reason it needs to still be bundled in core at all? I understand the concept of having a learning plugin, but then, why not just make a learning plugin and add to the repository outside of core?

#4 @birgire
2 months ago

  • Keywords good-first-bug added

Sounds like a good-first-bug, so I mark it as such.

Listening to the great Louis Armstrong singing Hello Dolly here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVHkOzVggtI

I don't hear him sing the last part exactly like this:

One of your old favourite songs from way back when
Golly, gee, fellas
Find her a vacant knee, fellas
Dolly'll never go away
Dolly'll never go away
Dolly'll never go away again

e.g. I don't hear the line: "Find her a vacant knee, fellas" in that part and he adds "Have a little faith in me, fellas" in there too. There's also like "So, golly, gee, fellas" and "favorite tunes"?

But I guess he used many variation on this?

#5 @iandunn
2 months ago

+1 to deleting the offensive lines. If there are unoffensive variations that could be used instead, that's even better.

I also think it's good to keep this ticket focused on that narrow scope. Removing/replacing the lines now won't prevent us from unbundling the entire plugin later, if we ever decide to reverse the decision from #11538, but trying to do both at the same time is more likely to bog things down and delay this.

@sebastien@…
2 months ago

remove 2 lines in Hello Dolly

#6 @sebastien@…
2 months ago

  • Keywords has-patch added; needs-patch removed

Hello, This is my very first contribution to the WP Project. Is my patch OK? DO not hesitate to give me some advises...

#7 @audrasjb
2 months ago

  • Milestone changed from Awaiting Review to 5.0
  • Owner set to sebastienthivinfocom
  • Status changed from new to assigned

Hi, Thanks for the patch, @sebastienthivinfocom Passing the good-first-bug as claimed. The patch looks good to me. Moving it to 5.0 milestone for the moment.

Last edited 2 months ago by audrasjb (previous) (diff)

#8 @joemcgill
2 months ago

Thanks for the patch @sebastienthivinfocom, this definitely meets the criteria as I described it.

Another approach I was thinking about, in order to leave the lyrics intact for historical reasons, is to add a list of "black-listed" lines that would be removed from the array before the random selection happens.

Last edited 2 months ago by joemcgill (previous) (diff)

#9 @joemcgill
2 months ago

I also, really like @birgire's suggestion that we update the latter line with a different version of the lyrics, which matches what Google says the lyrics are anyway.

e.g. I don't hear the line: "Find her a vacant knee, fellas" in that part and he adds "Have a little faith in me, fellas" in there too.

#10 @sebastien@…
2 months ago

We can surely add these "several lines" found on Google:

Have a little faith in me, fellas
Dolly, never go away
Promise, you'll never go away
Dolly, never go away again
Last edited 2 months ago by sebastien@… (previous) (diff)

@joemcgill
2 months ago

#11 @joemcgill
2 months ago

@sebastienthivinfocom I think updating those lyrics makes sense, and better reflects the version of the lyrics found in the recording as well. I've added 43555.diff which takes those changes, plus a couple of other edits that seem to match the lyrics (and the recorded version). Additionally, I've implemented a little different approach, which filters out the lines we don't want to show, rather than deleting them from the lyrics. What do you think?

#12 follow-up: @birgire
2 months ago

According to Wikipedia src:

Hello, Dolly!" is the title song of the popular 1964 musical of the same name. Louis Armstrong's version was inducted in the Grammy Hall of Fame in 2001.

The music and lyrics were written by Jerry Herman [...]

So it looks like Jerry Herman wrote the original lyrics.

I assume the plugin is using his exact lyrics (??), so I'm now hesitating to modify his original creation in any way. It would also be nice to have his name in the description of the plugin.

I think the solution proposed by @joemcgill is the way to go here, to filter the output instead.

#13 in reply to: ↑ 12 @joemcgill
2 months ago

Replying to birgire:

So it looks like Jerry Herman wrote the original lyrics.

I assume the plugin is using his exact lyrics (??), so I'm now hesitating to modify his original creation in any way. It would also be nice to have his name in the description of the plugin.

It looks to me like the original Jerry Herman lyrics from the musical are also different to what is in the current plugin. It looks like this rendition is from a version of Louis Armstrong, but I can't find an official source that matches the lyrics in this plugin. Even so, these updates seem more accurate based on searches of several lyrics sites and based on the recorded performance by Louis Armstrong, neither of which include the "Find her a vacant knee, fellas" line at all.

#14 @birgire
2 months ago

@joemcgill yes there seems to be different versions of the lyrics on the internet and not clear who modified it.

Additionally there seems to be lyrics difference (??) in the two Louis Armstrong videos I found on YouTube.

But it looks like all the lyrics versions, contain at least one of the offending lines, so we would end up with our own (new) version of the lyrics, if both were removed. So with that in mind I felt like your filter approach would be better ;-)

ps: On this lyrics site there this: Hello, Dolly lyrics © Warner/Chappell Music, Inc., Kobalt Music Publishing Ltd.

Last edited 2 months ago by birgire (previous) (diff)

#15 @pento
2 months ago

  • Keywords needs-refresh added; good-first-bug removed
  • Milestone changed from 5.0 to 4.9.5
  • Owner changed from sebastienthivinfocom to joemcgill

I think 43555.diff is the best direction for now.

One minor change, let's not add the $unshown array, we can just just remove the lines from $lyrics, instead.

@sebastien@…
2 months ago

#16 @sebastien@…
2 months ago

I removed the $unshown Is it OK?

#17 @hometowntrailers
2 months ago

Keep it simple by removing "Hello Dolly" entirely.

The WordPress community is large; anyone can find coding examples elsewhere.

#18 @soulseekah
2 months ago

And add a filter in there, so people can insert their own lyrics as needed.

@audrasjb
2 months ago

Refreshes last patch in order to prepare core integration

#19 @audrasjb
2 months ago

  • Keywords needs-refresh removed

@hometowntrailers & @soulseekah thanks for your suggestions but I guess this should be adressed in a specific ticket. I refreshed @sebastienthivinfocom 's patch because something probably went wrong with his diff/patch file.

@pento @joemcgill: does 43555.3.diff patch looks good enough to you?

Cheers, Jb

Last edited 2 months ago by audrasjb (previous) (diff)

#20 @joemcgill
2 months ago

Thanks @sebastienthivinfo.com and @audrasjb for the refresh. I think the only thing still missing is that the "Find her an empty lap, fellas" line needs to be deleted, as it was in Remove_2_offensives_lines_in_hello_Dolly.patch, then I think it's good to go.

@audrasjb
2 months ago

Refreshes the previous patch to delete another not wanted line in lyrics

#21 @joemcgill
2 months ago

Thanks @audrasjb. 43555.4.diff looks right to me.

#22 @audrasjb
2 months ago

  • Keywords commit added

Great, thanks!

@joemcgill
2 months ago

#23 @joemcgill
2 months ago

Some small changes before finalizing this. 43555.2.diff bumps the version number and leaves line 18 as it was previously.

@pento if this looks good to you, I'll commit and backport.

#24 @pento
2 months ago

43555.2.diff looks good for commit to trunk, and back porting to the 4.9 branch.

#25 @joemcgill
2 months ago

  • Resolution set to fixed
  • Status changed from assigned to closed

In 42839:

Update Hello Dolly lyrics.

This updates the Hello Dolly plugin to remove lines which could be objectionable when shown in the admin out of context, and brings the lyrics more in line with Louis Armstrong's recording.

Props sebastienthivinfocom, birgire, audrasjb, joemcgill.
Fixes #43555.

#26 @pento
2 months ago

  • Keywords fixed-major added
  • Resolution fixed deleted
  • Status changed from closed to reopened

#27 @joemcgill
2 months ago

  • Resolution set to fixed
  • Status changed from reopened to closed

In 42840:

Update Hello Dolly lyrics.

This updates the Hello Dolly plugin to remove lines which could be objectionable when shown in the admin out of context, and brings the lyrics more in line with Louis Armstrong's recording.

Props sebastienthivinfocom, birgire, audrasjb, joemcgill.
Fixes #43555.

Merges [42839] to the 4.9 branch.

#28 @joemcgill
2 months ago

In 42841:

Update unit test following r42839.

This updates the expected version number for Hello Dolly in Tests_Ajax_Update_Plugin::test_update_plugin following [42839].

See #43555.

#29 @joemcgill
2 months ago

In 42842:

Update unit test following r42839.

This updates the expected version number for Hello Dolly in Tests_Ajax_Update_Plugin::test_update_plugin following [42839].

See #43555.

Merges [42841] to the 4.9 branch.

#30 follow-up: @TJNowell
2 months ago

Would it make sense to add a musical note symbol to clarify that it is indeed lyrics? Perhaps turn it into a link to the full Hello Dolly lyrics so it has some context?

#31 in reply to: ↑ 30 @SergeyBiryukov
2 months ago

Replying to TJNowell:

Would it make sense to add a musical note symbol to clarify that it is indeed lyrics? Perhaps turn it into a link to the full Hello Dolly lyrics so it has some context?

Sounds like a great idea to me. Even without a link, a note symbol seems like an easy improvement. Could you create a new ticket for that? Thanks!

#33 @sami.keijonen
2 months ago

Sorry to interrupt but now would be perfect timing to remove Hello Dolly from the Core.

#34 @Takahashi_Fumiki
2 months ago

I'm very disappointed to modify lyrics. Its completeness is on a side of the original author and it's somehow insulting to cut it up without any permission. +1 for simply removing all the plugin from Core.

#35 @kalich5
8 weeks ago

I would delete all Hello Dolly content! It is a relic!

#36 @dawesi
7 weeks ago

I'm putting this ER on my wall for the most PC fix ever.

Seriously, let's change the lyrics of a copyrighted song? Is that even legal? Is the complaint even in line with the original meaning of the words?

Just because you say it should be changed, doesn't mean it should. Sick of people with low self esteem putting cotton wool everywhere, how about fixing your issues, and self pity, instead of breaking the law by changing words to someone elses song to suit your disorder?

This is the start of the end of Wordpress, bring on the lawyers. (this is going to make tech news for sure)

#37 @iandunn
7 weeks ago

Hi @dawesi, we welcome all opinions and any constructive criticism, but we also require that everybody act respectfully and professionally. We're a community, and we work hard to make sure that all of our spaces are friendly and welcoming environments. In the future, please express your opinions without resorting to insults and ad hominem attacks.

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